2 shot, killed at Northern Calif. mall on Black Friday. But even the sun will run out of energy some day — as is the same with every star. Others say there was just the one, but our universe will spin on forever. Atheists agree that our universe was started by a “Big Bang.”  The disagreement comes when we ask what made all the noise. mass-energy entities in existence’, i.e the same as the one I gave above. If the universe always existed, then anything that has happened, is happening, or will happen within this closed eternal system has no meaning. The reason why the universe has always existed is not known. "We know the universe exists and cannot have come from something else because the ‘something else’ would already be inside the universe! The series lays a vital foundation for understanding both the world around us, and the Gospel itself. i.e. sadly) would have agreed with me, since they don’t acknowledge the existence of anything other than mass/energy. No matter what theory is put out there the universe has always existed. So what happened 20 billion years ago? A quick follow-up on my just-made feedback. Some say that the “Big Bang” was just one of a infinite number of explosions before it. If there was no beginning then the past is infinite. Your definition in the way you seek to use it turns out to be totally circular, committing the logical fallacy known as begging the question, You can use the ash as fertilizer for a new tree, and you can use the heat to cook dinner. In one of his notebooks, Darwin addresses himself as, “O, CMI may choose not to publish your comment depending on how well it fits the guidelines outlined above. It’s like saying ‘I’ve disproved the existence of a transcendent God by assuming He is not transcendent’. you materialist!” and says, “Why is thought, being a secretion of brain, more wonderful than gravity as a property of matter?”—see Romans 1:18-22 might explain as to why this gentleman seems to be so confused. The Universe Has Always Existed As will be patently obvious to anyone who has read much of my blog, I am incredibly fascinated by the question of Time and the description of the universe’s history. Asked by: Pete Sears, Australia. This law of thermodynamics basically states that each time you use energy it is transformed into energy that is less usable. Ether out universe has always existed in its current state, or it has always existed in a small form before the big bang. Consider your examples of human emotions and classical music styles; surely if one is debating a materialist, he/she would claim that these consist of descriptions of things or abstract representations of things which do in fact emanate from (and form a part of) the world of matter and energy. There has also been a revival of interest in the “tunneling proposal,” an alternative way that the universe might have arisen from nothing, conceived in the ’80s independently by the Russian-American cosmologists Alexander Vilenkin and Andrei Linde. By submitting your comment you are agreeing to receive email updates from. It has helped me clear my misunderstanding. Thus, the universe has not always existed because we still have usable energy. Both the Bible and science tell us that we live in an expanding universe. Information is not a product of time, but of thought. Jolie becomes trending topic after dad's pro-Trump rant. Quantum science says you ALWAYS have existed and ALWAYS will exist ... Dr David Hamilton said all consciousness is and always has been in the universe … But we have a finite amount of usable energy. Creation Ministries International (CMI) exists to support the effective proclamation of the Gospel by providing credible answers that affirm the reliability of the Bible, in particular its Genesis history. Many Scientists today have dogmatically imposed a "Religion of Materialism" on the SCIENTIFIC METHOD. What you are doing here in a ‘too-clever’ philosophical word-game, essentially, is to It seems illogical to me. 74 thoughts to “PARALLEL UNIVERSES: Quantum Physics says you have always existed and always will exist” Toejamicus says: July 22, 2017 at 6:19 pm So that’s how it works. Share this quote: Like Quote. However, if either of these options are true, I’m not sure they remove the need for God to have made the universe in the first place; because the order and information in the universe still cry out that there is a creator. … This means it contains EVERYTHING (and therefore every person) that exists.". The Bible states that God not only stretched out the heavens when He created them, but that He is still stretching them out. Evidence shows that it is in fact about 13.5 billion years old. Thus, the universe has not always existed because we still have usable energy. 3 2. If it always existed then how did we arrive at the present? elements of the set.”), Assume a materialist were to discuss set theory with a Christian. If your comment is published, your name will be displayed as ". For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened.”. assuming that which you claim to prove. Thank you Dr. Carl for this article. Harmless symptom was actually lung cancer If this sort of 'chess' (or better perhaps 'ping pong' was all our ministry was about, it would not be very satisfying, I agree. I leave you with this question: Which one takes more faith: believing in that one chance in infinity, or in an intelligence behind it all? The best answer I have heard is that the Universe has always existed as a gravitational singularity, which then expanded as a result of quantum fluctuations. Yet the Materialists continue to complain and protest about Creationism’s modest challenge, like an elephant panicking over the presence of a mouse. The universe has always existed. God - eternal, non material, creator & 2. People always believe that everything has a beginning and an end... Everything starts from somewhere or something... Everything has walls... What if there are no walls? 1 decade ago. What if Space has no beginning and end? Universe at one point did not exist, and in the future it will be nonexistant again, therefore sucessfully negating my peers position that it has always existed. Unfortunately, these peculiarities can very often lead to very common misconceptions. Had Jack M., United Kingdom, 2 March 2013, left it at the following, he would have capture my thought on the matter quite nicely: universe - uni - one verse - to turn (Greek), Ted G. needs to give C. S. Lewis' "Miracles" a read. In But we cannot assume responsibility for, nor be taken as endorsing in any way, any other content or links on any such site. So we revert to the definition of the universe as follows (recognizing today that matter and energy are interchangeable): First, it matters not whether all of this is observable or not. And as pointed out, I would normally have no problem with It began with the Big Bang 13.8 billion years ago when the Universe was tiny, hot, and dense. The whole group of universes, if there are indeed more than one, is commonly called the multiverse. I would have simply said "nonsense is still nonsense , whether you say it about God or anything else!" Share this quote: Like Quote. So I find it odd that some are really willing to risk their life on such improbability. the problem is in the premises, not the logic, as we have seen. Simple logic!". A FREE downloadable study guide is available from creation.com/tga. GOD BLESS! Thus, the universe is slowly running out of usable energy. What is more difficult? You certainly covered the problems there. The universe is a living being - our galaxy is a cell. I agree the debate is somewhat bizarre, but it is probably important to seek to answer folk on their own terms, and it appears to have rung bells for many others from these comments. Near the shuttlecock’s rounded-off bottom, though, the correlations are less reliable; time ceases to exist and is replaced by pure space. As we are time dependent I'll say it so: Once there was God and nothing else. It’s only when you try to be tricky and slip God into The usual story of the Universe has a beginning, middle, and an end. The widely accepted age of the universe, as estimated by general relativity, is 13.8 billion years. (Thought itself, in that philosophy/worldview, is regarded as ultimately material in origin. I.e. If anything existed then some form of universe existed, therefore, a changing universe has always existed up to … So, here’s the question. So I … And could you please enlighten me more on this?! The disagreement comes when we ask what made all the noise. The universe must have had a beginning and such a beginning needs a sufficient cause that is non-material (in order to be self-existing/eternal). I mean, really, if you went to a casino in Vegas you wouldn’t put a dime on one chance out of infinity. Read more quotes from Carl Sagan. The catch – according to astrophysicist Brian Koberlein – is that, without the singularity, this model predicts that the universe had no beginning. It goes somewhat like this: Ted G is trying to prove his case logically but his materialist worldview cannot account for laws of logic (universal, invariant, abstract entities). I’ve been waiting for you.” There would be no doubt in your mind that it took an intelligent being to write that message to you. The materialists have no problem with it, because in their view, there is nothing outside of matter/energy. Ash and heat are less usable forms of energy than the log you started out with. Providing your postcode enables us to let you know when a speaking event is in your area. So over an infinite amount of time all the usable energy would be used up. The correspondent’s particular thinking is a variation of a trend of thinking from Hobbes and Spinoza, down to the present. Friends Who Liked This Quote. Is this true? unseen, bounded or unbounded. The path back in time cannot be extended beyond 13.7 billion years or so. The universe, unlike the Creator, does not create; at least it does not create something from nothing. Therefore, the universe has always existed! either definition, because it would be assumed by all sides that one is talking about the material world of objects. [URL deleted as per feedback rules]. The universe must have had a beginning and such a beginning needs a sufficient cause that is non-material (in order to be self-existing/eternal). If so, couldn’t that take away the need for a creator rather than the Big Bang where “something” had to be there for it to happen 0 comments Until now the dominant scientific view is that, somewhere around 13 billion years ago, there was a single point which exploded (AKA, the 'Big Bang'). strengthening the materialist maxim of ‘no God’—which if true, would make your assumption invalid in the first place. (If you haven’t received your first email within a few minutes, try checking your spam folder.). Check your email! There is no way for a thing to happen before the first moment of Time, because things only happen within Time, and there is no Time which exists … In the same way, in classical thermodynamics, a system plus its surroundings is the universe—seen or No problem, I published my response before I read your followup. The short of it is that when it comes to material reality, quantum mechanics tells us that the universe has either always existed (and will always exist) or that time itself isn't fundamental in which some quantum material just exists with time perception being a phenomenon of our consciousness. Understood, though the Word does say 'answer a fool according to his folly' :-) Seriously, the thought behind publishing was that it might contain useful teaching points, as perceived by some in this whole thread. Sign in. Even the term itself hints at that. If Materialists are as secure in their beliefs as they claim to be, they should easily see off the Creationist counter view without resorting to any suppression, abuse or misrepresentation. (via explaintion of elementary fallacy) Therefore the universe has always existed. It requires that something infinitely improbable will occur if it has an infinite amount of time to occur — which sounds more like a numbers game than science to me. I would say that this is a contradiction. Many atheists say that the Universe has always existed? Second, it can’t be said that this is a self-serving definition designed by Christians for Christians, since it is one that can be (and has been) agreed upon by (“A set is a gathering together into a whole of definite, distinct objects of our perception and of our thought—which are called That aside: the universe could not have always existed because that idea is in direct opposition to the Second Law of Thermodynamics. There is a message in the universe: the information in DNA; the precise balance in a star of the gravity and the forces of the outward explosion; the balance of living thing on earth necessary to keep it habitable — so much order and precision. A notion, I should note that scientists in general disagree with, the disagreeance comes from what created or caused the universe to exist. Was the universe created with a Big Bang 13.7 billion years ago, or has it been expanding and contracting for eternity? The universe has always been here. Of course, you might argue that you are simply saying ‘for the sake of the argument’, that ‘if God exists’ He must be part of the set of all sets. (By the way, if there was noting, Thank you! Nothing more definitive can be said. We have sent you an email that will allow you to update your details. danyu1. I apologize for my testiness. I would like to pose a few questions to Ted G. Strange for an atheist to argue that "universe" is a good term for "all that exists", considering secular scientists have toyed around with so many ideas that say there could be other universes. Numbers, which are utilized as abstract representations of objects in the material world. The Fool on the hill. What that means is that as you go backwards in time, you eventually run out of time (or, more accurately, out of spacetime). Privacy Policy. The time that has elapsed on a hypothetical clock which has existed since the Big Bang and is now here on Earth will depend on the motion of the clock. It is generally excepted that if God does not exist, then everything we see and know came about by random chance. The universe has always been here. materialists and non-materialists alike. In General Relativity, the Big Bang is a spacetime singularity. They therefore would not (unstabilized change of relations of matter and mind) 6. The question of the eternity of the world was a concern for both ancient philosophers and the medieval theologians and philosophers of the 13th century. He needs to renew his intelligence. Has the universe always existed? Some say that the “Big Bang” was just one of a infinite number of explosions before it. Thanks for the embedded lessons in logic as well. I realize now that I was a bit grumpy over my morning coffee when I wrote that note. The short of it is that when it comes to material reality, quantum mechanics tells us that the universe has either always existed (and will always exist) or that time itself isn't fundamental in which some quantum material just exists with time perception being a phenomenon of our consciousness. This explosive moment marked the beginning of the universe-- everything that exists was born from a single point they call the 'singularity.' There’s a wealth of evidence that the Universe began in a Big Bang around 14 billion years ago. Just to reiterate: the universe (all matter/energy) cannot have always existed (been eternal) because of the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Just to reiterate: the universe (all matter/energy) cannot have always existed (been eternal) because of the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Despite being infinite in size our universe is cyclical and has always existed in one of four stages. What do you think of the answers? So, if the universe had always existed that means there is an infinite amount of moments leading up to the present moment. as follows: Interesting; I would have defined the universe as ‘all the matter and energy that exists’—and materialists (which the majority of scientists are today, There are many things that show evidence for the existence of God. Recommend to friends. Even the article we are directing you to could, in principle, change without notice on sites we do not control. 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